Bernice Pogue talks with KEPW after Aug. 14 ‘not guilty’ verdict

Presenter Bernice Pogue waited more than two years for her day in court with Springfield Police. In the end, a six-person jury decided in her favor and against the Springfield Police Department’s foremost expert witness, Officer Joseph Burke. 

But this story begins three and a half years ago, with a live broadcast of Legalize Survival Jan. 25, 2023. Bernice Pogue:

Bernice Pogue: I knew that I could no longer really afford to rent, and I’ve been through that once before. And I went through the shelters and all that, and it was good, but I just don’t want to go that route again. I like being independent, on my own, and taking care of my own responsibilities.

So I purchased a trailer and a truck: $20 grand. But I kind of got a bait-and-switch where the batteries for the truck and the trailer had all been switched out. I couldn’t even drive it all the way home because the battery wasn’t the right size for my truck, so it wouldn’t run very far. We were stuck on the freeway and I had to get it towed back here. So that kind of ate up a lot of money. And then batteries themselves are really expensive, so unfortunately that meant I had to choose and I needed batteries. I needed this to be running and I chose the batteries.

Well, I had gotten a green tag on my trailer. First it was because part of it was on the sidewalk, so that was a violation. So I moved it and I ended up getting tagged again, for the registration not being paid.

So I got a pounding at the door and I open the door and there’s a cop there, and he is asking me if I could step out of the trailer. And it was raining and I’m like, and I’m in my jammies, and I’m like, ‘Oh, I have to step out in the rain. Can you, you know, can I sit right here on the porch of the trailer and talk to you? Or—‘, and he is like, ‘No. And do you have ID?’ And I’m like, ‘Yeah.’ And he is like, ‘Well, why don’t you grab your ID and then come out?’ And I’m like, ‘Okay.’ So I grab my ID and I go out and they tell me they’re towing this trailer.

And I start thinking, ‘Oh no, please.’ And I’m, like, trying to explain and, you know, ‘I am really trying, you know, I’m trying to reach out and I’m also trying to take care of just getting out of here so this isn’t a problem, but I’m not having luck. Please. A little more time.’

Didn’t want to hear it. It was being towed, period. So then I’m like, ‘Can I get some stuff out of it?’ And he’s like, ‘No, you’re not going back into the trailer.’ And yeah, my trailer got towed.

Finally, I got ahold of the place where it was towed and got information and it was going to cost me $830 to get it out. And that was just for the one day. So just the tow and, yeah, no extra days.

So I took money that I did have for bills, like my phone bill, all that, all my bills, and put that money towards that. My phone’s already turned off. I will slowly be getting more and more turned off, which is just kind of sad because that means I’m that further behind again. You know, I can’t pay anything anymore. And that’s scary, but it’s a choice I had to make when you’re choosing between my only shelter or paying all my bills that are going to be ending here soon anyways because I’m moving. I chose the shelter and so, yeah.

I just feel like, you know, I want people to hear this. I want people to know what’s going on. And I need help. Everyone needs help. This just isn’t fair when you’re barely surviving and you’re doing what you can.

You know, I respect the law. Most people respect the law. Not everyone’s out there trying to break the law, but when your survival, your very survival becomes illegal, what do you do?

Do you know, do you realize, when we leave here, there’s nowhere where we can be, really, that we’re allowed to be anymore? How is it that as soon as you lose your housing, you’re not even welcome in parks anymore? Bathrooms—I don’t think people really think about that. Just so many things just like snowball into a place where you’re just no longer welcome in society, nor do you even feel a part of it anymore.

Julie Lambert: Hi. Welcome to the show, Olivia. (I like your glasses.) Oh, thank you. Are you still able to keep up with your schoolwork? (Mm-hmm. Yeah.) Okay. And do you play games at school? (Uh, yeah.) Okay, good. Well, thank you Bernice, for coming to, to join us.

Bernice Pogue: Yeah. I have a knock on the door. I have police at my door right now. Hi, Officer Burke. I’m actually—this is being recorded. Okay, it’s this one? Yeah. Okay.

Officer Joseph Burke: You were going to say something to me?

Bernice Pogue: No, I’m just wondering, what now?  

Officer Joseph Burke: Okay. Well, a neighbor complained because they said that there’s a tank or something underneath your graywater tank or some bucket or something underneath.

Bernice Pogue: Do you see anything?

Officer Joseph Burke: I don’t see it.

Bernice Pogue: There’s nothing there. I don’t—

Officer Joseph Burke: You see an extension cord running across the sidewalk, which shouldn’t be.

Bernice Pogue: Well, there’s no power and I’m trying to move out of a house that has no power, into here. And so my neighbors are letting me use their power to do that. (Okay.) Because I kind of need power.

Officer Joseph Burke: I, I understand. (Okay.) What I’m advising you of is prohibited camping.

Bernice Pogue: Okay. I’m not trying to do—

Officer Joseph Burke: Did you want to listen? Because you, you told me that you’re recording me and you’d obviously like to hear what I have to say, I think. (Okay. Okay.) Camping in the City of Springfield is prohibited everywhere. (Okay?) On the street, in a driveway, anywhere.

Bernice Pogue: Well, there’s, unless you have a permit (I’m, I’m trying to—) Unless you have a permit, you can get a permit.

Officer Joseph Burke: Do you have a permit, ma’am?

Bernice Pogue: I don’t, and I’m trying to get one.

Officer Joseph Burke: We do not issue permits—

Bernice Pogue: But you could at least let me know that because that is true. And if I was really not knowing that and struggling, it would be something I should be able to know, right? And you should know that, since you work for the City of Springfield.

Officer Joseph Burke: May I give you the actual information so that you may receive it? Or are you only interested in—

Bernice Pogue: I would love it. I would love it. Yes. ‘Cause I don’t want to keep being told repeatedly what I’m doing wrong. I would love a solution.

Officer Joseph Burke: You let me know when it’s my turn to talk.

Bernice Pogue: Okay. I’m ready for a solution.

Officer Joseph Burke: Is it my turn to talk?

Bernice Pogue: No, I don’t want to hear you tell me more of what I’m doing wrong, please.

Officer Joseph Burke: Well then you don’t—

Bernice Pogue: Can I have a solution then?

Officer Joseph Burke: Then you do not want to hear reality.

Bernice Pogue: I do want a solution.

Officer Joseph Burke: The reality is—

Bernice Pogue: I want a solution. You said you have—

Officer Joseph Burke: You just want to interrupt?

Bernice Pogue: No, I don’t want to interrupt.

Officer Joseph Burke: All you’ve done is been rude and interrupt.

Bernice Pogue: You know what? Because I’ve been doing nothing but harassed about it. You can’t tell me anything I don’t— it is because you’re not the first one. This isn’t the first time (okay) I’ve been made contact with.

Officer Joseph Burke: Well, then I can tell you how to change that.

Bernice Pogue: Okay. Please.

Officer Joseph Burke: Move out of the city.

Bernice Pogue: I can’t. (Okay.) I’m trying to, and you won’t stop bugging me.

Officer Joseph Burke: What have you done to try?

Bernice Pogue: Move my stuff. I mean, I’ve got to be able to move it, right?

Officer Joseph Burke: How long have you been here?

Bernice Pogue: Would you rather me just not go? Well, I’ve been renting here and now I’m coming to an end and I’m trying to leave, sir.

Officer Joseph Burke: How long have you been camping here?

Bernice Pogue: I’ve been living here. (I understand.) My trailer’s been my—

Officer Joseph Burke: I didn’t ask you how long you’ve lived at this duplex. I asked you how long you’ve been living in this—

Bernice Pogue: How am I camping if I’m paying rent here? It’s just in front of my rental.

Officer Joseph Burke: Are you living in the trailer?

Bernice Pogue: Just now.

Officer Joseph Burke: Are you living in the house?

Bernice Pogue: Well, when my landlord turned the power off, I was kind of forced to go where I can have power.

Officer Joseph Burke: So you’re not. The answer is ‘No,’ then.

Bernice Pogue: ‘No’ what? I’m back and I’m in both. I’m moving out of here into here.

Officer Joseph Burke: I don’t understand why you’re so adversarial. I thought we were having a dialog.

Bernice Pogue: I don’t understand why I have to be harassed over this all the time. I tell you—I am speaking English. And you just don’t want to hear it—

Officer Joseph Burke: Just because you’re losing your mind doesn’t mean—

Bernice Pogue: No, I’m answering you. I’m answering you and you are being like—

Officer Joseph Burke: Just because you’re upset, just because you’re upset and behaving irrationally—

Bernice Pogue: Okay, whatever. It feels like—what do you want from me? What do you want from me?

Officer Joseph Burke: Conversation. I’m asking you for—

Bernice Pogue: Fine. Okay. First of all, you came over for one thing and it’s not, there’s nothing under there. I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Officer Joseph Burke: You’re camping. That’s unlawful.

Bernice Pogue: I’m sorry, I’m trying to survive. I pay rent right here. It’s in front of my rental unit. It’s in front of my rental unit.

Officer Joseph Burke: Are you willing to listen?

Bernice Pogue: Ohh! Okay, I don’t know what to do.

Officer Joseph Burke: There’s a $150 fine for every day you camp here—

Bernice Pogue: Okay. Fine me more. Okay. That gets me even further away from getting away from here.

Officer Joseph Burke: Then give me your driver’s license so I may write a citation.

Bernice Pogue: Do you know I am trying—I’m trying to move!

Officer Joseph Burke: You’re asking for a citation.

Bernice Pogue: I’m, no, I’m not. I’m saying you’re not giving any other option.

Officer Joseph Burke: You just said, ‘Fine me more.’

Bernice Pogue: That’s all that you guys are doing!

Officer Joseph Burke: Would you like me to write—

Bernice Pogue: And that just makes me further and further and further—

Officer Joseph Burke: I’m happy to assist you.

Bernice Pogue: —from being able to make you happy.

Officer Joseph Burke: Would you like me to write that citation?

Bernice Pogue: What do you think? What do you think?

Officer Joseph Burke: You asked me to. ‘Fine me more,’ was your demand to me.

Bernice Pogue: I want to know an answer, a solution here. And you don’t give me any.

Officer Joseph Burke: Your solution is to move. You’re telling me you can’t, but you haven’t told me how you can’t.

Bernice Pogue: Where do I move to, so I can still unpack, pack up and get out of here? How do I be two places at once? Does it look like I’m fully packed?

Officer Joseph Burke: I have no idea.

Bernice Pogue: I said I’m trying to move, do you not understand? Okay. I am trying to move, I am like hurdled in between two places. You know what, why am I getting upset? (May I ask you a question?) Why am I getting upset, was that what you want to ask me? But, ok, I’ll stop talking. What do you want to ask me?

Officer Joseph Burke: Stop interrupting.

Bernice Pogue: What do you want? Yeah, I’m trying.

Officer Joseph Burke: You understand conversations go two ways, right? There’s a back and forth between two people. It’s not screaming at one person. Thus far I’ve not raised my voice. I’ve not screamed at you. You have a child in there, at least one. And you’re setting the example for that child. I’m suggesting that you behave and set a better example so that that child learns how to behave like an adult.

Bernice Pogue: Sir, I am trying. Well then let’s, what do we want? I don’t know what you want from me.

Officer Joseph Burke: I’m asking you to lower the temperature. Stop. Stop with the fake tears and just have conversation.

Bernice Pogue: Okay, can we get to a conversation, I just feel, all I’m getting is beat up right now.

Officer Joseph Burke: You don’t have to call me Officer Burke, you can call me Joe. What’s your first name?

Bernice Pogue: Bernice.

Officer Joseph Burke: Bernice. You and I have not met before. You and I have not had a previous conversation about this. It is my inclination, from most people that don’t demand that I write them a cite, to give them a verbal warning. That’s what I prefer. If you’re demanding that I write you a cite, I’m happy to do that. If you would rather have a verbal warning, I’m happy to do that.

But what I’m not going to do is come out here day after day after day and issue a simple verbal warning. That doesn’t happen.

So Bernice, I’m telling you: Move this thing. I’m going to have a community service officer come out and tag it. If it’s not moved, then they will tow it. I don’t want to tow it. I’m not trying to add hardship to life. I’d like you to get your stuff in.

Bernice Pogue: I move it, but it goes with me. And then when I come back, it comes with me. (Okay.) When I leave it goes. So I, I mean, I don’t—

Officer Joseph Burke: There are places in Eugene and in the county that both seem not to care about people who camp on their property. Here in the City of Springfield, we do care. The citizens of Springfield care. That’s why they call us. We’re here to serve them and you, not just you. Not just your needs, but also their needs.

So, Bernice, I’d like to help you. I don’t have a solution where you can park it, but I do observe when I drive to Eugene, that nobody seems to care at all about all this stuff happening in Eugene.

Bernice Pogue: What?!

Officer Joseph Burke: That is something I see there. I don’t see, I don’t—I see campers lining the streets in Eugene. We don’t have that here. And there’s a reason you don’t see that.

Bernice Pogue: I see camping right down there.

Officer Joseph Burke: On occasion you do see them.

Bernice Pogue: Oh! (crying) And by the river. I see them in front yards. I see them everywhere in Springfield.

Officer Joseph Burke: We get called about people camping, which you are doing. Then we attend to that matter. That is what we do. I don’t think I’ve been especially hard on you.

Bernice Pogue: How can it be camping when I’m right there? That’s my unit. How is that camping? It’s right in front of a place I rent.

Officer Joseph Burke: If I was camping in front of my house, it would still be camping in front of my house. And it’s still within the City of Springfield.

Bernice Pogue: What if the power is turned off and illegal for landlords to turn off their power? …I’m in the process of moving. This is what I drive. This is what I, what you want me, so what, now I can’t even park in front of the unit that I’m moving out of?

Officer Joseph Burke: I didn’t say you couldn’t park in front of it. I said, you can’t camp.

Bernice Pogue: I’m not camping. I’m using the power ‘cause it’s here. (If you’re going to park—) and then I’m going to go back in—

Officer Joseph Burke: I’m going to tell you how camping is defined in this city. Whether you’re in a camper, fifth wheel, a tent, a sleeping bag on the sidewalk, all of those things would be considered camping if you’re going to do it.

Presenter: The discussion lasted 15 minutes and was broadcast in its entirety on KEPW.

Officer Joseph Burke: It sounds like we’re at an impasse of understanding. (Yes.) You don’t feel I’m understanding you? (Yeah.) And you’re definitely not understanding me, right? So we’ll deal with it in court at a later date. I’m giving you a verbal warning at this time.

Julie Lambert: That was, that was the live issuance of not a citation, but a—

Bernice Pogue: ‘You’re not welcome here anymore.’

Julie Lambert: Yeah, I heard that. Are you okay, Bernice?

Bernice Pogue: No! (crying) No!

Presenter: That was Bernice Pogue, who was being interviewed live on KEPW when she received a visit from Officer Joseph Burke. She caught up with the producers of Legalize Survival in November 2024.

Bernice Pogue visits with Jana and Julie on KEPW’s Legalize Survival for the first time since January 2023, when they were interrupted by Springfield Police Officer Joseph Burke.

Officer Joseph Burke: What I’m advising you of is prohibited camping.

Bernice Pogue: Okay. I’m not trying to camp—

Officer Joseph Burke: Did you want to listen? Because you told me that you’re recording me and you’d obviously like to hear what I have to say, I think. (Okay. Okay.) Camping in the city of Springfield is prohibited everywhere. (Okay.) On the street, in a driveway, anywhere…

So Bernice, I’m telling you, move this thing. I’m going to have a community service officer come out and tag it. If it’s not moved, then they will tow it. I don’t want to tow it. I’m not trying to add hardship to life. I’d like you to get your stuff in.

Bernice Pogue: I move it, but it goes with me. And then when I come back, it comes with me. Ok. When I leave it go. So I, I mean, I don’t—

Officer Joseph Burke: There are places in Eugene and in the county that both seem not to care about people who camp on their property. Here in the city of Springfield, we do care. The citizens of Springfield care. That’s why they call us. We’re here to serve them and you, not just you, not just your needs, but also their needs.

So, Bernice, I’d like to help you. I don’t have a solution where you can park it, but I do observe when I drive to Eugene, that nobody seems to care at all about all this stuff happening in Eugene.

Bernice Pogue: What?

Officer Joseph Burke: That is something that I see there. I don’t see, I don’t, I see campers lining the streets in Eugene. We don’t have that here. And there’s a reason you don’t see that.

Bernice Pogue: I see camping right down there.

Officer Joseph Burke: On occasion you do see them.

Bernice Pogue: I see them at the river. I see them in front yards. I see them everywhere in Springfield.

Officer Joseph Burke: We get called about people camping, which you are doing, then we attend to that matter. That is what we do.

Presenter: That’s part of an exchange broadcast live on Legalize Survival in January 2023. Bernice returned for a visit in October 2024. Here’s Jana Thrift.

Jana Thrift: Hi, I’m Jana, and you’re listening to KEPW-LP 97.3 FM in Eugene and simulcasting at kepw.org. This is Legalize Survival, and I am here today with my wonderful co-host, Julie. Thank you so much for being here with me, Julie.

Julie Lambert: Happy to be here, Jana.

Jana Thrift: We are live tonight for the first time in a very long time and I am pleased to say that I’m here with Julie but also a guest Bernice. Thank you for coming on to Legalize Survival again. Thank you.

Bernice Pogue: Thank you for letting me.

Jana Thrift: Yeah, I’m so appreciative for your willingness to come back with us and we had quite the interview the last time.

Bernice Pogue: Didn’t we?

Jana Thrift: So anybody that knows or has listened to Legalize Survival, a lot of people who listened to it regularly knew that this crazy thing went on while we were on the air live where the police showed up at the door of your trailer while we were live on the air in the show.

I mean, it was crazy. And it was a perfect example of exactly the experience—I mean, I felt like we were giving people listening to Legalize Survival a first-hand experience of what that feels like to be trying to survive, living in an RV and the police knock on the door and everything is, you know, it’s like your whole life is in danger of being jerked out from underneath you.

That’s what it felt like for me when I was listening to the experience. And I know it did get some attention, like some different people listened to that show, including, I believe Sam Broadway sent it to some city councilors and people. And we ended up having it discussed in the Register-Guard.

And some of what he said was crazy. That was part of why it got as much attention as it did I think, because when he said, ‘Go to Eugene because Eugene wants you people,’ yeah, crazy what he said. It was that energy. Yeah, yeah, the right quote, but that was kind of what he said and here we were giving like an actual example of that. So I feel like, is there any more, do you think, Julie, backstory we should give about all that?

Julie Lambert: Well, I think Bernice can pretty much speak for herself. She’s just been struggling. She bought an RV and a truck so that her family would never be homeless. And boy, did that backfire, because she’s not welcome in Springfield and she’s not welcome in Eugene.

Presenter: Police also knocked on her door in Eugene, while parked on Hilyard near Nightingale (Supported Shelters).

Bernice Pogue: When I got to Eugene, it was actually, it was really peaceful. I was surprised. I was like, what, you know, why didn’t I do this sooner? The reason I didn’t was ’cause my kids do go to school in Springfield and gas just moving around is hard enough very yet taken to and from school. So, and I still try and be close to the school.

Where I parked in Eugene, so it’s like right on the outskirts. So, but it was nice, relaxing. I ended up going further into Eugene over by was what 35th and Hilyard so I could be closer to the Family First Place. Maybe I’ll move up on the list or get the help that, you know, I’m like 37th on the waiting list. So there’s 37 families before me waiting for just a shelter, you know.

I was parked down by the Dari Mart there next to the Conestoga huts. And it was my second day there. No, my third day there, it was like the third. I got a knock at the door and they’re like, you know, okay, I’ve got a complaint from the neighbor. I’m like, ‘Okay,’ so we moved that day.

I’m not going to say anything, but I just had a really easy time until my name got into the system, and then it became, it seemed like a problem.

Everywhere I go, I just keep getting tagged, just tagged everywhere. I don’t think, you know, people want to be mean or anything. People are nice and they will let you stay, you know, often we clean up after ourselves when we leave and we’ll clean up whatever mess we can prior to that. So we do have people that will let us park there kind of regularly, but not like just stay the whole time.

So I’m trying to find like this three good places to bounce to, you know, and so I’m not anywhere, you know, for too long, but the problem is, is it’s getting worse out here. It’s getting worse. There’s more and more people and everyone’s trying to find a place to be.

So I think businesses and people just kind of feel like, ‘Well, you know, we let one person stay, then it brings more.’ Or, ‘It’s going to be like the ones we don’t want,’ you know, or just because one doesn’t behave, but you know, it’s like kind of like, yeah, one bad apple is ruining for everyone. Or just the fact there’s just way too many people.

And probably going to be more, considering the rent’s going to be going up soon. So it’s something I wish our city council would think about because I mean, this, this can’t last so much longer. It’s hard out here.

It just doesn’t make sense to me how you have all this empty land. No one can be anywhere. We have parking lots. They’re parking lots, but nobody can be in them. I mean: Do you know what feels like as a human to sit there and look around and just be told you can’t be anywhere, but you’re seeing all this all this property with nothing on it, no one on it, but you can’t be there either…

I never thought I’d actually end up homeless. The first time it happened, I was like, ‘What?’ Because I was thought there’s all these safety measures that really, you have to really not want help. You know what I mean? There’s just no way you’ll truly be on the streets.

And then there I was sitting in a Walmart parking lot watching people leave the store and I remember just sitting there and just thinking they’re getting in their cars and they have somewhere to go. I don’t have anywhere to go. Yeah, I just never thought I could ever be there that could actually ever really happen

Presenter: The full interview on KEPW closes with a news brief from Julie Lambert:

Julie Lambert: This information comes our way by a Friend of the Station, Ken Neubeck, and it’s an article on Invisible (People) TV and it’s entitled ‘The Growing Crisis: 100,000 seniors are homeless in America each night.’ And I can summarize it by saying that over 100,000 seniors in the United States are homeless each night due to inadequate safety nets and housing solutions.

Aging makes homelessness more challenging as seniors face difficulties such as cognitive decline, frailty, and limited mobility, which worsen their quality of life. Seniors represent at least 20% of the homeless population. We don’t hear about them very much. And they are more likely to live on the streets rather than in shelters, putting them at a higher risk of illness, violence, and premature death.

Many older adults will fall into homelessness after living near poverty for years, with life-altering events such as the loss of a spouse or illness that can tip them into homelessness. They often rely on emergency rooms due to limited access to specialized medical care, which further strains the healthcare system. Some proposed solutions emphasize treating housing as a human right (hurray!) and ensuring stronger protections for seniors.

Presenter: Legalize Survival airs at 7 p.m. Wednesdays. For the most recent programs, visit KEPW.org.

Julie Lambert, Jana Thrift, Richard Self, Todd Boyle, and the whole News Team were praised by Pacifica National News producer Lisa Loving.

Lisa Loving (KBOO, national host of ‘Sprouts’): I just wanted to say, now that I’ve spent some more quality time lurking around on people’s news websites, and you do such a great job. You guys do a great job, and you’re nested in a really smart platform that allows people to find out what’s going on around them. And you guys are doing coverage as good as any other newsroom in the whole state.

You really, you should be guests on Think Out Loud, you would be such great guests on that show, because what you’re doing is incredible. The coverage is incredible.

Presenter Lisa Loving from KBOO is the author of the book ‘Street Journalist: Understand and Report the News in your Community.’

She noted Todd Boyle’s work in convening public comment sessions when the City Council is on break.

Lisa Loving: That’s a brilliant idea. That’s brilliant. You heard me talk about El Tímpano, which is a media outlet in Oakland, where they started out by just like you said, setting up a microphone in outdoor markets because it was during the pandemic, because they realized that the Spanish-speaking people that lived in the Bay Area had no idea how to access services.

And that’s how they started. They set up a mic, they let people talk, they recorded it, and that’s where their reporting came from. That was the start. That’s just a smart idea. People don’t feel heard.

Presenter: She also praised work by Sam Broadway.

Lisa Loving: And you guys, this is really great, but you had coverage of a Zoom meeting about housing and it was so well done. I mean, I just had to laugh reading that. You want to laugh and cry both, right? But you guys, like, in the most, you know, just the most dispassionate way, you just serve it to them: But where will we go? Where will they go? Like, what else is there to ask? It was really well done.

Sam Broadway (KEPW Newsday): Yeah, I’m part of an informal group of advocates that I got together after the Supreme Court decision about Grants Pass to ask that particular question: Where can people go? And the city of Eugene several years ago, especially the city attorney, said outright: It is impossible to determine where people could go. Impossible. And what wasn’t said was: We’re not going to tell you where people could go because then they’ll go there and we don’t want that.

If you talk to Springfield, well, homelessness is against the law there, you see. So if you’re homeless in Springfield, you need to go to Eugene where people don’t care, says Officer Burke on KEPW radio.

Presenter: He shared a remarkable story reported by Jana Thrift and Julie Lambert.

Sam Broadway: We have a show on KEPW that airs 6:30 p.m. on Wednesday nights called Legalize Survival. Julie (Lambert) and Jana (Thrift, who produces that show and invented that show), were interviewing Bernice Pogue, who has two children and got an RV. And a neighbor was kind enough to let her hook up electricity, so she had a cord running from the neighbor’s house across the sidewalk to that RV.

Nobody knew this was going to happen. This was not planned. It was just going to be an interview with Bernice, about how hard things are and what a tough thing that she’s going through trying to wrestle with her and two kids and becoming unhoused all over again for the umpteenth time.

And while she’s being interviewed, there’s a knock at the door. It’s Officer Burke from the Springfield Police coming over to harass her and tell her all about what laws she’s violating and what she’s doing wrong, including having the cord going across the sidewalk, because that’s impeding traffic, can’t have an electric cord going across the sidewalk, and then he proceeded to tell her that there are no homeless people in Springfield, and they don’t want homeless in Springfield, and the best idea for her was to take her and her RV to Eugene because ‘Eugene doesn’t care.’ They’ve got RVs lined up for miles. Nobody cares. Go to Eugene.

Everything he was saying was just to make her feel bad and upset her life and that’s how police do when they’re dealing with the unhoused.

Presenter: Bernice tells the officer, and the officer acknowledges, that they are recording.

Sam Broadway: He got recorded doing this. By the time that was over, I put it out there that this had happened and the entire staff of Lane County wanted to hear this immediately. So most of the staff of Lane County, regardless of department or position heard the entire thing and were appalled, just appalled by this officer and his harassment of Bernice, to the point of tears.

Julie Lambert (KEPW, Legalize Survival): Yeah, and now we have the dubious distinction of being probably the only show on KEPW that’s actively monitored by the Eugene and Springfield police and who knows who else? Though, that was, I think, one of our best shows and it was also one of our worst shows, because he told her that she was setting a bad example for her children and, ‘What kind of a mother are you? Wipe away those crocodile tears,’ you know, just berating her. And we got all of it.

Eventually the Register-Guard made it a front-page story. However, Bernice still doesn’t have a place to park her fifth wheel.

Lisa Loving: That’s outrageous. And you deserve a wider audience for that, for real.

Presenter: A story first reported by KEPW producers Dan Pulju, Curtis Blankinship, and Todd Boyle could be headed for a national audience. A small entrenched minority in Oregon kept local Greens from hearing from several Jill Stein rivals.

Lisa Loving: That story about the Green Party, that’s a big deal. I don’t know if I saw that covered anywhere else, and I’m an inaugural member of the Pacific Green Party of Oregon, and I’m going to work on that story about the Greens because I did a quick search and I didn’t see that covered anywhere, right? And here’s Jill Stein talking about how the Democratic Party is stifling free speech!

You guys, you’re going to have big ideas, and you’re going to, maybe you’re going to pull on a string that is so explosive it’ll freak you out. Tap me, you know, ask me for advice, because I would love to help you.

Presenter Pacifica’s Lisa Loving praised community radio for starting a discussion about Bernice Pogue’s experience.

Julie Lambert has been interviewing Bernice Pogue for KEPW. Behind the scenes, just before their interview Aug. 21, we spoke with Bernice Pogue:

Bernice Pogue: I was just lucky that my situation became public via radio station and newspaper and all that, so people listened more and were more interested.

But this is happening all over. You know, you think, ‘Oh, you got a trespassing ticket. Oh, no big deal.’ But you don’t realize—that court uses it to keep tabs on you.

It gives officers opportunities to harass you more and even just come into your trailer ’cause you get put on kind of a probation.

I was waiting two years for my trial. For two years! I had to go in monthly and I got put in jail twice …

It’s used to further just harass to the point where honestly, you are losing your mind. You just want to give up altogether. You know, it’s too much. You’re trying to survive and just constantly, constantly like, yeah, I’m so tired of this us against them.

And I don’t blame the officer. I blame higher-ups, the very high-up. When you create an us-against-them type of a mentality, this is what we get, you know? And it’s not right. It’s not right.

Presenter: Bernice Pogue was taken into custody and charged July 13, 2024 by Officer Joseph Burke with driving under the influence of intoxicants. More than two years later, she finally got her day in court, and on Aug. 14, 2026, a six-person jury declared: ‘Not guilty. ‘

You can hear Julie Lambert’s interview with Bernice Pogue on KEPW 97.3 Eugene PeaceWorks Community Radio.